[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:06] Speaker B: Film Finder brought to you by Pioneer Library System.
Hello and welcome to a special episode of five Minute Film Finder. I'm Ben and I'm joined by Samuel. Welcome back, Samuel. I'm excited to have you here for a kind of new concept episode. We have decided to. This episode is so new and different that we kind of want to use it as a jumping off point for maybe a new format for certain episodes.
What we are doing is we are covering a movie from our platform as usual. So this one's from Canopy. We're covering the Battle of Algiers, important historical war movie.
But we are connecting it to a film that was heavily influenced by it. And that is going to be kind of the core tenet of these, this format.
And that movie that we are covering is One Battle after Another, the best picture winner of this last Oscar season.
[00:01:08] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:01:09] Speaker B: So we're very excited to talk about this, but I guess we should just jump off about talking about war movies, how we feel about war movies. We've already done an episode on War Movie to remind everybody. We did the Great Escape and 71. Two greatly disparate movies.
[00:01:27] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:01:27] Speaker A: Yeah, for sure.
Yeah. I remembered that episode and I had a lot of fun doing it. And again, I think, I think we both were like, are we like war movie fans? But we've watched a bunch. And then anytime you watch a war movie, you kind of have to think about violence and.
[00:01:44] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:01:44] Speaker A: And while I was talking about 71, I think I mentioned the Battle of Algiers and like how that movie, I think 71 and the battle of Algiers have very different takes on violence and what it can accomplish, I guess. And so I just, ever since that episode, I've been like, I kind of want to do a podcast on the Battle of Algiers. So we finally got one on the books.
[00:02:09] Speaker B: And I mean, and I think, and I think it's important to mention that Battle of Algiers is largely considered one of the greatest all time war movies just by everyone.
The film actually starts out by, during its time of release. Just a list of accolades and awards that it won in its time and since then has been like kind of indoctrinated as like, this is how you make effective filmmaking about war. That feels real. Feels effective.
[00:02:39] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:02:40] Speaker B: Feels grounded in the realities that everybody lived through.
[00:02:43] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:02:47] Speaker B: That being said, do you just want to jump in on the Battle of Algiers?
[00:02:50] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:02:51] Speaker A: So that was, I mean, this was kind of the movie. I kind of prompted it. And it's on Canopy and I, I saw it. When did I first see it?
I Saw it like maybe a couple years ago, maybe more than that.
And have been really struck by the way violence unfolds in that film because it is, it is very much honest about war as a concept. Right. Like war as like these are two sides using violence to accomplish an end. And in this case it's a lot of guerrilla warfare. So you see a very ugly side of war.
[00:03:33] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:03:33] Speaker A: And so let's.
[00:03:34] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:03:35] Speaker B: Place setting.
So a nice starting point. Well, we'll read the IMDb synopsis.
[00:03:42] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:03:42] Speaker B: In the 50s, fear of violence escalates as the people of Algiers fight for independence from the French government.
[00:03:48] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:03:49] Speaker B: That's very concise. This is about the real revolution in Algiers.
[00:03:56] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:03:56] Speaker B: Against the French governing body.
And is filmed on location.
[00:04:05] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:04:06] Speaker B: Very much influenced by Robert Pasolini, I believe is his name.
[00:04:13] Speaker A: Well, I think so.
I think it's actually Fellini. Sorry, the Italian names are getting jumbled in my head.
I think, I think I read that Federico Fellini was the.
[00:04:28] Speaker C: But.
[00:04:29] Speaker A: But I think, I think Pasolini was another Italian director around that time who used a similar approach to casting, which is using like.
[00:04:39] Speaker B: Oh, so I think, I think. I know it is. I think Pasolini was the film style, the like news style, filmmaking. And Fellini was the casting local non actors.
[00:04:53] Speaker A: Okay. For.
[00:04:54] Speaker B: For that realism of portrayal.
[00:04:56] Speaker A: Okay, well, okay, we might, we might be wrong on both. Oh, no, I just, I just pulled up the Wikipedia page.
[00:05:02] Speaker B: Right.
[00:05:02] Speaker C: And it's.
[00:05:03] Speaker A: I think it's Roberto Rossellini.
[00:05:04] Speaker B: Rossellini.
[00:05:05] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:05:06] Speaker B: So film lovers, not experts.
[00:05:08] Speaker C: Yes, yes.
[00:05:10] Speaker B: But we will get there.
[00:05:11] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:05:12] Speaker A: If we do enough of these podcasts.
[00:05:14] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
But, yeah, so this was my first time ever seeing this film.
I'm glad that you mentioned it because I am with, with movies. I'm very much a person who has to be made to meet, eat their vegetables.
[00:05:29] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:05:29] Speaker B: And this very much felt like vegetables, but like, oh, I see why this is important. Like, it's very evident of like. Okay, this is a well made film about a very important subject and very effective at what it did.
Where do you want to start?
It's, it's. Yeah, it's kind of unrelenting.
[00:05:55] Speaker A: It is, it is. It's about two hours, but it doesn't. I think both of our films are kind of. For today are longer, but they don't feel as long as they are because there is sort of a quick pace, I guess what I mean, I kind of would like to start with.
I almost kind of want to talk about like the history. I don't again, I'm not an expert on the, you know, Algeria's struggle for independence, but I do know, like, I. From my days in undergrad, I remember learning that, like, this was a different post colonial struggle for France compared to, say, Vietnam or say Senegal or other places like that. Because, like, the French saw Algeria as, like, this is a part of France. Right. This is. This is. This is not like a colonial outpost.
[00:06:48] Speaker B: This is just a natural extension of our nation.
[00:06:50] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:06:51] Speaker B: Because it's just across the Mediterranean.
[00:06:53] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:06:53] Speaker A: And so from my understanding, that made this particular conflict that much more traumatic.
And you see that in the movie. Right. You know, we were talking a little bit beforehand and the way that violence is displayed.
Right. Like, by casting people who actually experienced the warfare.
[00:07:17] Speaker B: I think I was having this thought about war movies in particular, and effective war movies. And I think what distinguishes them from action movies that take place during war is that, like, visceral and reality of it and not like, boosting up the. The action and just being like, oh, this is scary and bad.
[00:07:41] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:07:42] Speaker B: Like, the actual. The action and violence that happen isn't, like, heroic on either side. It's just like, oh, my gosh, this is what they've been pushed to.
[00:07:51] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:07:51] Speaker B: Especially in this movie. It's like both sides have been pushed and. And they talk about the. The boomerang effect of.
Of state violence.
[00:08:00] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:08:01] Speaker B: And it's just like they enforce this.
Thus the other side is forced to make a. A impact or like.
[00:08:08] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:08:09] Speaker B: Get any notice to then escalate their violence then back and forth and back and forth.
[00:08:13] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:08:15] Speaker B: And that's like, what this movie is, is the escalation.
[00:08:19] Speaker A: It really comes through in the. There's a scene, right. So the. The fln, Right. The. The liberation movement and Algiers is there. They're basically.
They're killing police officers and stealing guns and then killing more police officers. And so, like, the director, the superintendent for the police, him and some buddies sneak into the Arab section of Algiers and they plant a bomb and blow up, like, civilian housing. Right. And so that was like, they crossed this line. Yeah.
And then all of a sudden. So then, like, the Algerians come back with bomb. And that scene is incredible because you have to, like, the rhythmic drumbeat music going on.
[00:08:59] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:08:59] Speaker A: It's cutting material between, like, these, like, French people. Like, some of them, like, kind of like you would imagine are like teenagers, like, at, like, this, like, club dancing or whatever.
[00:09:09] Speaker C: And.
[00:09:10] Speaker A: And these women smuggle these bombs over and these, like, very, like, civilian places
[00:09:14] Speaker B: are blown up and so not to jump ahead to connect to Paul Thomas Anderson. But, like, he has always had a, like, drum heavy jazz soundtrack to his films.
And I was like, feeling. I was like, I wonder if, like, he saw this very early and that just got planted the seeds of like, oh, I like this frenetic drum to like, drive tension and stress in a situation because, like, it's definitely present in one battle after another, but it's been present in his entire filmography. It's kind of like one of his, like, hallmarks and. But it's so effective in Battle of Algiers. Just every time that theme keeps coming back, you're just like, oh, I feel my heart beating a little bit harder.
[00:09:58] Speaker A: I was. I mean, this. This was my second watch at the end. Like, it really follows around a guy named Ali Lapoint, I think.
Is it Le or La?
Also not a French expert, but Ali is like this guy. He's like a street, like, grifter maybe. Seems like he does, like, card tricks for kind of money and stuff. And then he's arrested and then he.
[00:10:23] Speaker B: His unemployed.
[00:10:24] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah.
[00:10:25] Speaker B: Bricklayer, boxer.
[00:10:28] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:10:29] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:10:30] Speaker A: And he becomes a gorilla and like, in the liberation movement. And it ends like, this is a huge spoiler, but I don't. I'm fine spoiling the end. He. And he ends up being blown up by, like, the French, like, military service.
[00:10:45] Speaker B: And he's. He's our, like, main focus. Like, we bounce around to lots of characters through within the Liberation, but he's kind of like our grounded connection.
[00:10:55] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:10:56] Speaker B: Throughout.
[00:10:57] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:10:58] Speaker A: And where was I going with this?
[00:11:02] Speaker B: I think you're just setting his character up.
[00:11:04] Speaker A: Oh, okay, okay. Yeah, there's. Yeah. And so he, like, he dies. He dies at the end. Oh, it's that final standoff. Yes. Which I was shocked when I watched it again just this week because that final standoff to me felt interminable the first time I watched it. Like, like, like.
But. But watching it again, it's really.
It's like a couple minutes at the very end of the movie.
And I think. I think that tension, the way the, the. The score like, settles into the. To the film and the dramatic tension of it. And then also the characters are like Ollie and the Colonel, Matthew.
They're like, larger than life in a way, and I think they are of.
[00:11:54] Speaker B: But interestingly, the Colonel, I kept thinking, like, if this was a modern film, they would have made him so much worse.
Seeming rather than a grounded career man.
Just like, I'm a soldier. This is my job. We talked a little bit about this already. But I think that was interesting how like grounded they make him while clearly like, this is the colonial, like enforcer.
[00:12:21] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah.
[00:12:23] Speaker B: But not like mustache twirling villain.
[00:12:26] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:12:26] Speaker A: He's very clear eyed about what he's doing.
[00:12:28] Speaker C: Right.
[00:12:29] Speaker A: He's like, you know, if France wants to stay in Algeria, this, these are like the consequences. Right. Which means I have to torture people. And. Well, he says we don't use torture, but like, like that's not the word
[00:12:39] Speaker B: we use, I think, is what he said.
[00:12:41] Speaker A: Yeah, we use interrogation.
[00:12:43] Speaker C: Right.
[00:12:43] Speaker A: Like do these horrible things.
[00:12:45] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:12:46] Speaker A: But if you, if, if France doesn't want to do this, right, then I won't do it kind of a thing. And, and I think, I think this is the other like kind of historical twist of it all, I guess, which is, right, he fought in the resistance. Right. The colonel had fought in the resistance against Nazis.
[00:13:05] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:13:05] Speaker A: And he kind of brings that up because I think, you know, the French are accused of being sort of fascist. And he's like, how can you like some of us like, survived Buchenwald, you know, and you, you get a sense of like, this was a particular moment in, in 20th century history in which we saw the consequences of this sort of desire to conquer the kind of the world in a way. And, and, and the horrible evil that kind of under, like that is at the core of that.
And so all of a sudden once like Nazism is defeated, all these countries are like, wait a second.
[00:13:49] Speaker B: But you're kind of doing that.
[00:13:51] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:13:53] Speaker A: And, and you know, you like the wellspring of like these sort of liberation movements and independence movements just really kicks off.
[00:14:01] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:14:01] Speaker A: And I mean, if you go, I took a couple like, you know, history courses in undergrad on like, you know, the history of continent of Africa and stuff. And, and like, if you go through like the, the dates on like independence, it's like 50s and 60s, because it was like the world was reckoning with like, okay, we defeated like Hitler's Germany.
We need to change course. Right.
[00:14:27] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:14:27] Speaker A: You know, and, and, and, and obviously, you know, like, I think there are, you know, you can drill down in the history and see it wasn't like just this total, you know, conquest of good. Right. There are ways in which independence was won, but like, these countries were like hampered by, you know, kind of what they call neocolonialism. Sorry, I don't want to turn this into.
[00:14:46] Speaker B: It's hard not to. These are, these are very political movies. Like we have to get into it a little bit.
[00:14:52] Speaker A: Yeah, but, but that's that's like, there in the film where you have this, like, colonel who's like, he's not the mustache twirling villain.
He was maybe at one point in time he would have been the hero of a film. Right. You know, and.
[00:15:07] Speaker B: Yeah. Set earlier in his life, he was probably a hero.
[00:15:11] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:15:12] Speaker B: And.
[00:15:12] Speaker A: And. And now because of. Because he is French and he is in the military, he has, like, deployed. Whatever gifts he has to. He's like kind of cruel ends. And it's. It is.
It's kind of a scary thing.
[00:15:29] Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
[00:15:29] Speaker A: So to. To watch, to witness.
[00:15:31] Speaker C: Right.
[00:15:31] Speaker B: Like, and some. Something we were discussing was the ends to which they come to. To get information like the. So back to the filmmaking here.
[00:15:46] Speaker C: They.
[00:15:47] Speaker B: They were very effective in how they showed the torture that they weren't, quote, unquote, torturing the torture that they were enacting on the. The people of the Kasbah in Algiers. And like, compared to modern filmmaking, the violence wasn't especially explicit or graphic, but because they. They implied enough through what they showed, and they showed people's reactions to it, it felt very visceral, despite it not having to be hyperviolent or hyper graphic in its depiction. Yeah, I felt very, like, upset by that.
And it's. And it's a very slow montage too, of just showing, like, without, like, dialogue. It's just like, this is what's happening after having that. That little news meeting where he's saying we're not torturing. And it's like, here's all the torture that we did. Yeah,
[00:16:47] Speaker A: yeah.
[00:16:47] Speaker B: And I think that's why a big reason why this was such an effective movie is that it kind of like, laid out in, like, clear detail is like, this is what it's like.
[00:17:00] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah.
[00:17:01] Speaker B: This is a revolution. This is people trying to put down a revolution.
[00:17:04] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:17:05] Speaker B: These are realities that you face.
[00:17:07] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:17:08] Speaker A: No, and it's. Yeah, it's very like. It's like. It's scary. Not in like. Like a horror movie kind of way, but it's scary because you see, you know, like, this is. I mean, this is kind of like what war looks like. And. And this is what these sort of power struggles involve. And it's, you know, and what people are capable of.
And. Yeah, it's.
But it is interesting because it's like.
Well, I mean, we could go a whole nother direction. There's that whole. I mean, like, on. On the filmmaking topic, right at the. At the. The final standoff between Ollie and the Colonel.
It's funny because you have A little discourse after.
He's. He's, you know, blown up. They're like, okay, we've cut the head off the tapeworm, and so now we don't have to worry about, you know, this. The FLN and this uprising anymore.
But, like, in the lead up to that, like, the camera focuses a lot on, you know, these people in Algiers just, like, staring on to the confrontation, like, sad, praying, you know, and. And that's, like, the effect of this style of filmmaking is, you know, Ollie is this sort of, like, protagonist. However, there's so much camera work done to take in the emotions and the feeling of so many other people.
[00:18:39] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:18:39] Speaker B: It's not just our characters. It is the community that it's portraying.
[00:18:43] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:18:44] Speaker B: And it's like, almost like the organism of the community, like, is its own character of, like. Okay. And we're seeing it swell and, like, change based on the actions and how they react.
[00:18:54] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:18:55] Speaker A: And the camera sees it, but the colonel never does.
[00:18:57] Speaker B: Exactly. Yeah.
[00:18:58] Speaker A: And that's why, you know, that's why you're right.
Despite how, like, difficult this movie is to get through, at the very end, you almost feel happy because it kind of ends on, like, this montage of, like, Algerians, like, kind of, like, rising up across the country, not just in Algiers. And it's like. Yeah, they win their independence. And it's, you know, it's just, like.
It's fascinating because it's not solely about this one figure, this one guerrilla, like, fighter.
It's about.
It's about the community that he inhabits and the network of, like, connection across this entire space and, you know, like, the entire country of Algeria.
And that, I think, just is the power of the filmmaking in this particular case. And. And why this is, like, considered one of the best film, like, war movies, if not one of the best films ever.
[00:19:57] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:19:57] Speaker B: And as. As we're reading, I think it's interesting the timing film was made. I remarked to you before we started recording that I was shocked that the movie came out five years after independence was one which seems so crazy, like, to be like. And we're making this movie now.
[00:20:15] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:20:15] Speaker B: But now that I'm thinking about it, it's also crazy that one battle after another was made almost before some of the actions it seems like it's depicting, even though it is a totally fictional film.
[00:20:28] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:20:28] Speaker B: There's a lot of stuff in it that seemed like it was happening alongside when it was released.
[00:20:34] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:20:35] Speaker B: So I think that maybe that's a
[00:20:37] Speaker A: natural way to transition over.
[00:20:40] Speaker B: But.
[00:20:40] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:20:41] Speaker B: So let's talk about one bell after another. So obviously we said, this is this year's best picture winner, directed by Paul Thomas Anderson.
Do you have a relationship with the director Paul Thomas Anderson?
[00:20:56] Speaker A: I'm ashamed to say I don't, actually.
[00:20:58] Speaker B: Not at all.
[00:20:59] Speaker A: I've seen. I think.
Oh, what's the one?
It's like a coming of age story that was pretty recent.
Is it licorice pizza?
[00:21:15] Speaker B: Licorice pizza, yeah.
[00:21:16] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:21:16] Speaker A: Yeah, I've seen that one.
And then now one battle after another.
[00:21:19] Speaker B: Man, what a crazy sampling.
[00:21:21] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah.
[00:21:22] Speaker B: Late career.
[00:21:23] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:21:24] Speaker B: He's been doing some cool stuff in his late career and, like, I think, exploring a little bit more.
I've been on board since There Will Be Blood.
[00:21:36] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:21:36] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah.
[00:21:37] Speaker B: Never seen.
[00:21:38] Speaker A: I've never seen. I've seen clips, so I had a
[00:21:41] Speaker B: bet with Darren that you would like There Will Be Blood, but he's like, I don't know if Samuel's ever seen any.
And he won, so.
But yeah, I actually.
I enjoy Paul Thomas Anderson. He is very specific. He has a very.
He has a voice in his filmmaking, which I really enjoy.
I've covered one other of his films on the podcast, Punch Drunk Love, which I didn't realize was him when I covered it until.
[00:22:16] Speaker C: Wow.
[00:22:17] Speaker B: Until I watched it and I was like, this movie is stressful. This is not a romantic comedy. Because I just remembered that movie as being like, I saw these cute trailers for it when it first came out.
[00:22:27] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:22:27] Speaker B: And then I was like, oh, this is stressful.
[00:22:30] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:22:31] Speaker B: And very much his style of, like, stressful filmmaking.
[00:22:34] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:22:34] Speaker B: And like frenetic. And like, you feel very connected to the action, very handheld feel and like.
[00:22:42] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:22:42] Speaker B: All that kind of stuff.
But yeah.
Should we. Here, let's read the synopsis for one battle after another.
When their enemy resurfaces after 16 years, a group of ex revolutionaries reunite to rescue the daughter of one of their own.
[00:23:02] Speaker A: Sure.
[00:23:02] Speaker B: Yeah. Like, that is. That is the things that happen.
[00:23:07] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:23:07] Speaker B: This one that I feel like is a lot more complicated to wrap around with a synopsis.
[00:23:13] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:23:15] Speaker B: It also feels like there's one movie that is the first bit of the movie with Perfidia.
[00:23:22] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:23:23] Speaker B: That feels like its own tone, feels like its own vibe. And then there's the rest of the movie.
[00:23:29] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:23:31] Speaker B: So the first bit of the movie is Perfidia and Patrick.
[00:23:36] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:23:37] Speaker B: Our two protagonists at that point of the movie, who are a couple in the revolutionary French 75.
[00:23:45] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:23:47] Speaker B: Anti fascism.
[00:23:49] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:23:50] Speaker B: Like pretty, like, broad strokes. Like anti corporate fascism, anti government fascism.
Just kind of railing against all oppression. Yeah, broadly.
[00:24:02] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:24:03] Speaker B: And I think. I think that's kind of something they're commenting on actively. There is like. Oh, it isn't clear exactly what they're fighting against, but it is clear who they're helping.
[00:24:15] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah.
[00:24:18] Speaker B: And they.
The first half. The first portion feels very, like, atmospheric.
[00:24:27] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:24:27] Speaker B: And like, poetic. Like, lots of the stuff that they're Saying feels like 60s revolutionary language. Like, it's very like, slogan nearing a poetic way.
[00:24:40] Speaker A: Was I.
I could have maybe just picked this up through like, cultural osmosis. But he was somewhat like, inspired. Inspired by, I guess, like, what was. Was it like the 70s left leftist groups that, like, engaged in, like, bombings and stuff?
[00:24:55] Speaker B: Yes, for sure.
[00:24:56] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:24:56] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think. I think a lot of that is like, those groups and then also connecting it to a modern analog of that and because, like, the French 75, there's not groups calling themselves stuff like that. That is very much like a 60s, 70s vibe of a anti fascist revolutionary group.
[00:25:18] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:25:19] Speaker A: Well, that's not to jump ahead in the movie, but I think. I think that's something that, like, comes out is like, there is this. There is this maybe generational friction between like, an older style, like.
Like, like activists or activism and like a newer, more sort of like current kind of style in terms of how one goes about accomplishing their ends. Like the language they use, how they talk to people and things like that.
[00:25:47] Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
[00:25:48] Speaker A: Which is very done for. Very comedic effect.
[00:25:50] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:25:51] Speaker A: But anyway, but. But I'm sorry, you were. You're in talking about like, that. The first.
The movie. Like, it's like the first, like 30, 40 minutes.
[00:25:58] Speaker B: Yeah, it's. And that's. And that's why it kind of feels like its own movie, because it is like, it's a good chunk of time setting up the actions of the French 75.
[00:26:09] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:26:11] Speaker B: Pat and Perfidia's relationship and like the setup of Colonel Lockjaws.
[00:26:16] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:26:18] Speaker B: Entanglement with them and the complications that arise out of that.
And it's interesting because the actress who plays Perfidia.
[00:26:32] Speaker A: Is it Teyana Taylor?
[00:26:33] Speaker B: Teyana Taylor, yeah.
She is captivating, like, so, like, charismatic on screen. And she's only in that first 30 minutes. She does some voiceover throughout, but, like, she's only actually in that portion of the movie, but she is what kicks off and the. Like, like linchpin and the. The actions of the movie.
But the main thrust of our plot is to do with there was an affair and. Or rape and. Or something.
[00:27:17] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:27:17] Speaker B: That is not clear.
[00:27:20] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:27:20] Speaker B: And I think that's intentional. I think, I think they're like, this was weird and messy and.
[00:27:25] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:27:26] Speaker B: Something.
[00:27:26] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:27:28] Speaker B: And Perfidia is pregnant, has a child.
[00:27:32] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:27:33] Speaker B: Then runs. Runs away or gets captured.
[00:27:40] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:27:42] Speaker B: Turns evidence on. On her revolutionary group and then runs away from witness protection.
[00:27:48] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:27:49] Speaker B: And disappears.
[00:27:49] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:27:51] Speaker B: So by all of her comrades terms, she is a rat.
[00:27:57] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:27:59] Speaker A: Which. That's just to interject here. I think this is another interesting contrast between this film and the Battle of Algiers, which is like the people who turn on the fln, I think are more sympathetic because they're being tortured. Whereas like here it's like she, she was, she was a rat. Right. Like she's called a rat. And, And.
[00:28:20] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:28:21] Speaker A: Anyway, sorry, but.
[00:28:23] Speaker B: And I think, I think they're even interrogating that as a thing of just like the simplistic like. Well, she's a rat.
[00:28:30] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:28:31] Speaker B: There's nothing more complicated. She, she told them about our, our people. She's like turned on. Turned on them rather than like. She survived.
[00:28:41] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:28:41] Speaker B: She, she, she did what she had to to survive.
Which like, I think is the question that they're wanting the viewer to ask is like, what would you do?
[00:28:50] Speaker A: Because so many other characters kind of turn.
[00:28:53] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:28:53] Speaker A: And, and, and you see why it's.
[00:28:55] Speaker B: Yeah. And there's, there's always like clear like power dynamic structures that like there's like anybody would crumble under this.
[00:29:02] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah.
[00:29:03] Speaker B: And I think, I think it's interrogating a little bit about the cultural. Like nobody's going to be the perfect, like revolutionary. Like everybody has something that can be held against them.
[00:29:17] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:29:18] Speaker B: Like to make them like fold under pressure.
[00:29:20] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:29:21] Speaker B: And like, so to not hold everybody to a standard of like. Well, you all should be perfect.
[00:29:26] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:29:28] Speaker B: I think, I think that's the conversation it's trying to have, which is interesting. And.
But I mean, let's zoom out a little bit. We're getting very specific.
[00:29:37] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:29:37] Speaker B: This, this movie is funny.
[00:29:41] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:29:42] Speaker B: Through large portions of it. But similar to Battle of Algiers, which they have a quick cameo of, the film is being watched in this movie.
Leonardo DiCaprio's character of Pat is watching it in his, in his trailer in a like, very brief in between scene and like even like comments on the fact that he's watching it. Yeah, but where was I going?
This movie also has that visceral, realistic depiction of act of criminal action, of war action, of military police action when they have the protest against the crackdown in the city of Becton Cross.
[00:30:33] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:30:34] Speaker B: That feels Real?
[00:30:36] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:30:36] Speaker B: Like, yeah.
When they have the kids rounded up in the high school, that felt very grounded and real.
[00:30:44] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:30:45] Speaker B: The interrogations.
[00:30:47] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:30:47] Speaker B: Like, those were so uncomfortable because I was just like, imagine teenagers being interrogated like that. It felt like too, too real.
[00:30:56] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:30:57] Speaker B: And like, and like you were saying, like, breaking under pressure. Like, you, you know why the person that they were leaning on, like, was the one who like, gave it up because they had more to lose.
[00:31:09] Speaker C: Yeah.
Yeah.
[00:31:11] Speaker A: Especially when the person across from you is willing to be that cruel. Right.
[00:31:15] Speaker B: Yes. And like, they very much established, like, oh, yeah, this, this is their guy who is going to get the information out of the person. Knows what screws to turn.
[00:31:24] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:31:27] Speaker B: I don't know what, what struck you about this film?
Did you enjoy this film?
[00:31:34] Speaker A: I.
[00:31:36] Speaker B: Is enjoy a weird word to use for it?
[00:31:38] Speaker A: Joy might be a weird word to use.
Yeah. I, I didn't really know. I had heard a lot of good things from folks I trust. Slash. Like, it was like I was split. Like, half the people I talked to were like, oh, yeah, it's a really good movie. And the other half were like, I don't know, it's weird.
[00:31:58] Speaker B: And it has felt polarizing. Like, I think Darren is on that. That other side.
[00:32:04] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:32:05] Speaker B: Like, I really enjoy it, but I also can absolutely see how people might not.
[00:32:10] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:32:11] Speaker A: Well, I think the thing that. That strikes me is, and I was telling you this before we started talking, but the, the way in which maybe this is not dissimilar from the battle of Algiers, but like the way in which the community is very significant for.
For the. Not just the revolutionaries, but in their post revolutionary life. Right.
Yeah.
[00:32:43] Speaker B: I was reading an article about the movie that mentioned is like an illustration of the need for mutual aid.
[00:32:52] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:32:52] Speaker B: I was just like, oh, that's a really interesting way to put it.
[00:32:55] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:32:56] Speaker A: And when you read. When you read about these things, you know, so, like, not to keep going back to the battle of Algiers, but there's a moment in which there's a wedding scene in the middle of that movie, which is kind of weird to say, but it's there. And. And it almost tells you why it's there.
[00:33:13] Speaker B: I forgot that it was there until you just mentioned it because of the framing of it all.
[00:33:17] Speaker A: Yeah. But the guy's like, hey, they don't let us do our own, like, civil ceremonies, so. But we need to do these things.
And so they do it and like, they have this wedding ceremony in the battle of Algiers similarly, I think.
Right.
[00:33:32] Speaker B: Like,
[00:33:35] Speaker A: what's the Daughter's name?
Leo's daughter.
[00:33:40] Speaker B: Charlene.
[00:33:40] Speaker A: Charlene, yes. She goes to, like, write a dojo with the.
Which is.
[00:33:47] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:33:47] Speaker A: Benicio Del Toro. Right. Like, and then his wife is, like, running this whole sort of operations, like, to help people.
[00:33:55] Speaker B: Yeah, I like that. He just says, we got a Harriet Tubman type situation going on. It was, like, cool.
[00:34:02] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:34:03] Speaker A: And you get this sense of, like. Oh, you know, and then even, like, you know, when Leo's, like, you know, having that frustrating conversation with someone with the, like, the remnants of the revolutionary, like, movement, the people who knew him from. From in there, like, can come to his aid and they, like, care about him. And it becomes really real when he's, like, yelling at this dude. He's like, you obviously don't have a dog. Like, you don't have a family.
[00:34:28] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:34:28] Speaker A: And I think that that is very important for what this movie is trying to say.
[00:34:34] Speaker B: And it's funny. Like, I think that's a. That moment is a good illustration of the tone of this movie. Of, like, it's funny. Like, the whole interaction is funny, but Leo is playing it so real because he is, like, having a panic attack because his daughter is under threat.
[00:34:54] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:34:55] Speaker B: And, like. And that's real. But also the way that he's coping with it is hilarious.
[00:35:00] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:35:00] Speaker B: In this very specific way.
[00:35:02] Speaker A: He's constantly trying to charge his phone, this, you know, ancient phone. And. And. And.
[00:35:07] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:35:09] Speaker A: It's very in the frenetic nature of it, I think, can. Can lend itself to comedy in a way. And.
Yeah. And like.
[00:35:17] Speaker B: Like, what are you.
[00:35:17] Speaker A: Like, what are these people wanting to accomplish? Right. And, you know, like, Leo just wants his daughter to be safe.
[00:35:27] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:35:27] Speaker B: It seems that Leo, after Perfidia leaves, is happy to be out of the revolutionary business.
[00:35:34] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:35:34] Speaker B: Very much wants to keep his daughter safe, but isn't fighting the fight anymore.
[00:35:39] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah.
[00:35:40] Speaker A: But. But that's like. That's the thing is, like.
And I think that's kind of the point of the movie. It's like.
Like, you don't have to keep doing, like, right. Like, you. You can be a dad. Right? Like, you can be a dad.
[00:35:50] Speaker B: It is okay to have fought and then.
And then be done with the fight.
[00:35:54] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:35:55] Speaker A: And.
And then, like, I. This is a thought I had while watching the movie, which I really liked. Colonel. Or is it Colonel? Well, I think he's a captain and becomes a colonel. Like Lockjaw.
He basically. He wants to join this, like.
Like, white supremacist secret society.
[00:36:15] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:36:15] Speaker A: And the fact that the Christmas Adventurer. Yes, a Christmas adventurer.
[00:36:21] Speaker B: I have a higher purpose.
[00:36:23] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:36:25] Speaker B: It was wild.
[00:36:26] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:36:26] Speaker A: And it almost like, maybe like those guys seem like mustache twirling villains and that's probably a good thing. Like, there's. Yeah, they're silly. Like, there's, there's these.
[00:36:36] Speaker B: Well, I think, I think the point of that is to show the absurdity of that.
[00:36:41] Speaker C: Yes, yes.
[00:36:43] Speaker A: And so like, a lot of the movie, like, is driven by Lockjaw because Charlene might be his daughter. And I think they. It kind of like, it kind of resolves in that, like. Or it's left ambiguous.
[00:36:58] Speaker B: But yeah. They don't show you. Lockjaw says she is like, refers to her as his daughter. But I think again, it's another one of those, like, we're not going to tell you because it's not important.
[00:37:11] Speaker A: Yes, yes, but, but, but for him it is like he's like, I need to basically, like, kill her because this, this could keep him out of the Christmas adventurers club.
What a silly thing to say.
What a silly sentence that just came out of my mouth.
[00:37:28] Speaker B: They keep saying Hail Santa and it made me laugh every time.
[00:37:31] Speaker A: Yeah, but, but like at the end, he thinks he's gotten what he. What, what he wanted.
And it's basically an office in Phoenix.
That's what it boils down to.
[00:37:43] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:37:44] Speaker A: It's.
[00:37:44] Speaker B: It's so sad. This is like, here's a kind of nice office. It's not even like the most opulent office you've ever seen. It's just like kind of a nice office with a view.
[00:37:53] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:37:53] Speaker B: In Phoenix.
[00:37:54] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:37:54] Speaker A: Yeah. Or like a Phoenix analog. Right. And, and you know how ridiculous like, this is. This is what you want. Right.
[00:38:04] Speaker B: He's just like.
And I've made it.
[00:38:08] Speaker A: And like, Leo's character, for all of his faults, like, what he wants is a family that's like safe.
[00:38:15] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:38:15] Speaker A: And, and safety.
[00:38:17] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:38:18] Speaker B: And a loving family.
[00:38:19] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:38:20] Speaker A: And you see like, like, like your higher purpose is, is an office in Phoenix. And like Leo's higher purpose is like a loving family.
[00:38:27] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:38:28] Speaker A: Like, I think I know which one's higher. Right.
[00:38:31] Speaker B: And, and,
[00:38:33] Speaker A: and, and then like, I think it also kind of like, again, resonates a little bit with the battle of Algiers when, like, you know, the colonel's like, saying to the press, like, you know, like, if, if you don't want France to be in Algeria, then, like, we don't have to do this. But, and so then like, what, so what, what does, what does France want?
[00:38:52] Speaker B: They want.
[00:38:53] Speaker A: They want, like, you know, they don't necessarily want an office space in Phoenix, but. But it, like, it's what it amounts.
[00:39:02] Speaker B: This place.
[00:39:03] Speaker C: Yes, yes. Yeah.
[00:39:04] Speaker A: What it amounts to is like. Oh, like, you just. You just want to have this, like.
Like, I think. I think I. I can't. Again, I don't know the history well enough, but. But from the film the Battle of Algiers, it feels like a resort, basically. You have a resort country to yourself. Right.
And. And. And it's like, is this.
It's like all the torture and all the, like, the violence, is that really, like, is this what we want to do? You know? And. And that's kind of how watching, like, Colonel Lockjaw unwind in this silly little office.
[00:39:38] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:39:38] Speaker A: It's like all that. All that stuff you did, all that
[00:39:42] Speaker B: unspeakable violence, was this what it was for?
[00:39:45] Speaker C: You know? Yeah.
[00:39:46] Speaker A: And so anyway.
[00:39:47] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah.
[00:39:49] Speaker A: Sorry, that was, like, kind of.
[00:39:50] Speaker B: Oh, no. I think that's a very important, like, aspect of it is just like. It's like all of. All of that level of stuff is just like, we just want a little bit more. Yeah, just a little bit more stuff.
[00:40:02] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:40:05] Speaker A: And. And. And.
[00:40:06] Speaker B: And, like, kind of at the expense of people just being safe and able to live their lives.
[00:40:12] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:40:13] Speaker A: Like, truly building a community. Going back to your mutual aid, like. Yeah, right. Like, that's backed in Cross. It was like, very much like this is, you know. You know, even though, like, Benicio Del Toro's character is not involved with, like, the first, for instance, 75. Like, he's also kind of involved.
[00:40:30] Speaker B: I love that. It's just like, its own separate, like, almost revolutionary.
[00:40:34] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:40:36] Speaker B: Just fighting the fight that they. That they need to. And they're just like, oh, yeah, sit.
[00:40:42] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:40:42] Speaker B: Cross purposes or Same. Same purposes.
[00:40:45] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:40:46] Speaker B: So, yeah, of course we're gonna help you.
[00:40:48] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:40:48] Speaker A: And it's like, because they just. They just want to have their, like, nice little town with, like, their. Their dojo and. And their school dances and. I don't know. I just.
[00:40:59] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:40:59] Speaker B: But I think an interesting thing to see there is that when they go back to the Christmas adventures, like, the heads. They're like.
They went to the high school and, like, them reacting to, like, how Lockjaw
[00:41:14] Speaker A: has crossed the line.
[00:41:15] Speaker B: Like, they even have their, like.
[00:41:18] Speaker C: Yeah, we.
[00:41:19] Speaker B: We don't do that, though.
[00:41:21] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:41:22] Speaker A: Like.
[00:41:23] Speaker B: Like, this is. And, like. And it's interesting to see, like, that of, like, even though they're the ones who pushed Lockjaw into, like, making this happen, they're like. But have Some decorum.
[00:41:34] Speaker A: Yeah, it does. It does feel, like, not like, to kind of connect it to, like, American history. Like, the Christmas Adventurers Club is like, like an old school WASPy sort of secret society that they kind of. They want the lockjaws of the world, but they kind of don't want them too.
[00:41:54] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, but they're embarrassing. Yes.
[00:41:55] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:41:59] Speaker A: It's. It's.
I don't know. Through this conversation, I think I kind of. I kind of like one battle after another.
[00:42:06] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:42:06] Speaker B: I mean, it's, It's a fascinating movie.
The score, which we already touched on, is really great. It goes between, like, classic Paul Thomas Anderson drum frenetic and piano.
[00:42:20] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:42:21] Speaker B: To, like, more like, swelling, like, I think kind of hearkening to the Battle of Algiers, like, when it does all of a sudden swell with, with. With strings and like, it's like very much like here is a big moment that we're going to, like, drive home. Like, what's, what's important about it.
But, man, I just love all the, like, little choices of, like, how he films things in this movie, like the comedic stuff, the. And the, and the realistic stuff. Like when they're running across the rooftops.
[00:42:58] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:42:58] Speaker B: When the skateboarders are, like, doing, like, flips and, like, jumping across and, like, Leo's barely keeping up and then eventually falls off.
[00:43:05] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:43:06] Speaker B: It's so good.
[00:43:07] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:43:07] Speaker B: Like, like, the first thing I thought of was like, is this Ninja Turtles? Because it looks like when the Ninja Turtles are running across rooftops, like, doing flips and stuff. And I was just like, there's such like, a, like, light hand on the comedy in this. To just be like, this will be very funny, but we're not going to, like, ham it up too much.
[00:43:25] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:43:27] Speaker B: And then him falling off the roof immediately leads to him being arrested, which is so, so heavy and dark. Immediately.
Yeah. I really enjoy this movie.
I understand why it won. I think it is because it's so topical and, like, so many people talk about. How did, did he just predict all this happening?
[00:43:50] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:43:51] Speaker B: Just based on the timeline of when it was written and when it was filmed. Like, a lot of the stuff that was very, like, topical when it came out, he couldn't have known about because it hadn't happened yet.
[00:44:01] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:44:02] Speaker B: If things were like this, then they'll probably go in this direction. And it was just very, like, insightful about, like. Oh, yeah, this is where authoritarianism leads.
[00:44:11] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:44:12] Speaker B: Like, unchecked.
[00:44:13] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, no, for sure.
Yeah, it does, it does.
[00:44:19] Speaker C: And.
[00:44:20] Speaker B: And I think it.
[00:44:20] Speaker A: In a way, like, it. It.
By doing it in such a way, without being so. Right. Because Battle of Algiers is like, this is about real people with real reference points.
[00:44:34] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:44:35] Speaker A: This one, it's kind of like.
[00:44:37] Speaker B: Because it's also like, near future, too, which is an interesting aspect of it. It is not supposed to be grounded in our reality. It's supposed to be in a, like, slightly dystopic near future.
[00:44:48] Speaker A: Yes. Which is. Is kind of. You can see it, but. But without. Without it being like, one to one. And I think that allows it to
[00:44:58] Speaker B: be,
[00:45:00] Speaker A: like, I. I guess I don't want to get, like, hampered down by, like, you know, like, should art transcend or whatnot. But I think. I think while being, like, topical, it is still, like, there's a. There's a.
I think a persistent relevance to a film like this.
[00:45:17] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:45:19] Speaker A: Because it's able to touch on, you know, what are the pressures of these sort of systems of. Right. Like, you know, like, just taking people off the street, basically. Hiding procedures behind closed door. Right. You know, like. Like, procedures are there to protect the rights of people. Right. That. That sort of thing. And, like, these procedures have just fallen by the wayside. Right. And in this. And so you see, like, these are the pressures that these sorts of things have on communities and people's people and individuals and.
And, you know, you don't. You don't have to kind of, like, live what we're currently living through to see, like, the relevance of that.
[00:46:04] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:46:05] Speaker A: Which I. I hope gives this movie some sort of, like, a persistent quality that allows it to be something you can Revisit, you know, 20, 30, 40, 50 years from now, like we did with the Battle of Algiers, you know, like.
[00:46:20] Speaker B: Yeah, well, I don't think we can wrap it up much better than. I think that was a perfect way to sum up this episode. So.
Yeah, we. We highly recommend both of these movies. Obviously, One Battle After Another is not streaming on either of our platforms. However, there are so many physical copies in our system. I believe when we checked on Wednesday, there were 14.
[00:46:44] Speaker A: I'm about to return one.
[00:46:45] Speaker B: Yeah. So he's gonna get another one circulating again, so thank you for that.
But we highly recommend checking out Battle of Algiers on Canopy.
Very interesting. I think, like you said, transcends the era it was made in because it is so well made about a problem that persists.
[00:47:05] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:47:07] Speaker A: So eat your vegetables and watch.
[00:47:08] Speaker B: Absolutely. Eat your vegetables. And by all means, I enjoyed my vegetables. It was a good choice to watch this movie, and I'm glad that you brought it up.
[00:47:20] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:47:21] Speaker B: Thanks for listening and we will see you on the next episode of five Minute Film Finder.
[00:47:25] Speaker A: See you then.
[00:47:26] Speaker B: Bye.
Five Minute Film Finder is a digital program brought to you by Pioneer Library System in Oklahoma. All opinions expressed in this episode are those of the host and not those of the organization.
Five Minute Film Finder is produced, recorded and mixed by Ben Si Theme music by Ben C.
If you have any questions, concerns or comments, please email
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