Episode Transcript
[00:00:06] Speaker A: Welcome to five Minute Film Finder brought to you by Pioneer Library System.
[00:00:13] Speaker B: Welcome to another edition of the 5 Minute Film Finder podcast with Pioneer Library System. I am one of your hosts today, Kendyl Watson, joined today by my co host, Samuel. Samuel joining today, I think we've done actually a couple episodes before, but it is always a joy to have you. I have to say, don't tell anybody else, but I think you're one of my favorite people to talk to on this podcast.
[00:00:33] Speaker C: Oh, wow.
[00:00:35] Speaker B: Just because, just because everybody you know that's hosted, hold really quick because you are really, really neat that you. A lot of these films that you choose you have not seen before in some capacity. And so I don't want to get ahead of myself, but we have some very, very kind of iconic known films, film, if you will, out there in the world. The films of all time picks for you today. But before I get ahead of myself, I just wanted to give you guys a brief rundown of our podcast. For those of you, if it's maybe your first episode or your 40th episode, thank you for joining us. We both have five minutes as co hosts in this podcast to talk about films either found on the services Hoopla or Kanopy or elsewhere through the Pioneer Library System to eventually convey those plot, the settings, the themes, the summary and the historical significance. Sometimes I would say in this case today to you, our audience and listeners in the hopes of aiding you in your next film find.
So I kind of alluded to it before I gave that whole spiel, but I wanted to throw it back to you, Samuel. You kind of led our choices today. So before we begin your five minutes, do you mind telling us first off what your choices and then kind of what led you to choosing these films?
[00:01:51] Speaker C: Yeah, so yeah, I chose Sunset Boulevard, which is available on Hoopla, and Canopy, which is nice available on both. I, you know, I have sort of done a, you know, autodidactic learning about, you know, autodidactic film study for myself. As I've tried to learn more about the medium and as I've like read about movies and stuff, this was one that has popped up on lists of, of films you should watch.
[00:02:23] Speaker B: And are you referring to kind of like the 1001 movies to see before you die type list?
[00:02:29] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That you find there, there's.
The list that I typically refer to is. I don't think it's on that list.
There's a very slim volume on film from Oxford University Press that has around the world in 80 films, which is really nice. And so I get a lot of, like, my picks from that. From that list.
Yeah, yeah. And it kind of opens you up to a lot of foreign film as well. And so.
[00:02:58] Speaker B: And so the Sunset Boulevard was on there. Is that kind of.
[00:03:00] Speaker C: I don't think it might be, but I don't think it was. But it was. There's another book that I read that talked a lot about Sunset Boulevard, and I was like, okay, throw that on my watch list and stuff. So, yeah, sorry to plug a book that didn't even have Sunset Boulevard on the list, but.
[00:03:14] Speaker B: But it kind of informs our listeners how we choose the movies we choose, though.
[00:03:18] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, I'm constantly, like, trying to find movies that are either iconic or seem important.
But even, you know, I also have a soft spot in my heart for, like, 90s action films. I guess now that has slowly developed as I've ventured out and learning about film. So I don't know. It's very.
[00:03:44] Speaker B: Give it Time. Those might appear on the Oxford Press list. Give it time. You know, we're only about, you know, 30 years out that. Yeah, it's great. So when you sent me Sunset Boulevard as a possible choice, I have been kind of waiting.
I kind of go through hoopla and Canopy and kind of choose movies as you will, you know, that I eventually want to choose and talk about. And I had really, really wanted to talk about who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf.
[00:04:09] Speaker C: Okay. Yeah.
[00:04:10] Speaker B: And so I thought this would be a good pairing to go with yours.
And we'll get into the details here in a minute. But just culturally, around the same time, I think there's roughly about 16 years difference or so in between the. But really very different films in a lot of ways, but very similar films in a lot of ways, too. And so it's just gonna be really exciting. And also two fantastic female leads. Amazing. Both of them cannot talk enough about both of them in both the films. So, yeah, I just wanted to say I really appreciate that you're sharing kind of where you get your films from, because I think that's really, really valuable and kind of our perspective.
[00:04:51] Speaker C: What.
[00:04:51] Speaker B: We're trying to put a theme together for this episode. So, yeah, we're kind of approaching the iconic films, if you will, of Sunset Boulevard and who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf? And since it is a Happy Friday, I will go ahead and. Let's go ahead and Wilhelm, if we'll start our timer, I'm gonna go ahead and have you start, if that's okay.
[00:05:09] Speaker C: Sounds Good.
[00:05:10] Speaker B: Wilhelm, start us off. And Samuel, you have five minutes to tell us about Sunset Boulevard.
[00:05:14] Speaker C: Awesome. Thank you. Yeah. So Sunset Boulevard.
It kind of. So there's. So I don't even know where to start, but it's sort of. For me, there's a lot to recommend this film. Right. So one. It kind of starts off with a spoiler. You kind of know how it ends before you get to the end, which is kind of nice because it becomes less of.
Kind of a mystery or less of a plot that you're trying to figure out. And it becomes more about the characters themselves and what. What their motivations are and things like that, which I think is a good way to kind of tease out the dramatic tension.
The other thing that I think kind of goes and goes into this film is it is a meditation on the history of movies, which is interesting to say for a movie that came out in 1950.
[00:06:07] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:06:07] Speaker C: And. And film being kind of a relatively young art form.
[00:06:11] Speaker B: Very much so. But about 30 years. Yeah, 30 years at that time.
[00:06:15] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:06:15] Speaker B: The 90s action films.
[00:06:17] Speaker C: You were just talking about the 90s action films.
But, you know, it's so interesting because for those of you who aren't familiar with the film, it's basically this down on his luck script writer who gets caught up in the web of this old silent movie star who. Her star has fallen.
And there are some really embarrassing moments for her in the film when she tries to kind of make her come back. Going back to Paramount Studios and stuff.
And. And then also there's another plot with a young woman who is trying to become a scriptwriter, and there's almost like. Almost like a love triangle that forms around that.
But, you know, she. This old star, she normal. Oh, geez, I can't believe I forgot her name.
[00:07:10] Speaker B: No, I know. Yeah. First names are fine.
[00:07:12] Speaker C: Norman Desmond. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Norman Desmond. So she. She has this great line where she says the pictures became too small. Yes, yes. And it's. It's because they added sound, they became talkies and.
[00:07:27] Speaker B: Cause she was a silent star, right?
[00:07:28] Speaker C: She was, yeah. She was a silent star. Buster Keaton kind of makes a cameo appearance. Cause her, with her old, you know, aging stars, playing poker together. And there's Buster Keaton there, you know, who also kind of had a fall from fame I gu.
As the talkies became more prevalent. And it is interesting because I don't want to necessarily sympathize too much with Norma, but when you're talking about the art of film, it is a visual art. And then what does adding sound do to it? She thinks it degrades the art a bit.
[00:08:02] Speaker B: That line is. I'm so glad you mentioned that.
[00:08:04] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:08:05] Speaker B: I just watching it very briefly. I had not seen this movie before. Very briefly. And so that was. I was just like, yes, that is such a good line.
[00:08:13] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, it is, it is. It's that line. And then obviously has the iconic closing line where she says, Mr. DeMille, I'm ready for my close up crazed look into the camera and you see how she's become so deluded by her own stardom that, you know, being arrested and on newsreels is worth, you know, is a moment of she's back in film kind of a thing. And, and there's also this.
If you don't want to take the film angle, there's almost like a generational angle. Like she's. She's a middle aged woman and you can feel very sympathetic towards her because she's been, you know, chewed up and spit out by the industry, an industry she helped build. And that like creates some resentment within her towards particularly Betty, the, the younger woman trying to become a scriptwriter who is also vying for the attentions of, of, of Will Holden, I think is. Yeah.
[00:09:13] Speaker B: The.
[00:09:13] Speaker C: The protagonist who's kind of the cynical script writer who's maybe down on his luck. Sure. And you kind of see maybe like three generations here and they're different understandings of Hollywood.
[00:09:23] Speaker B: Sure, yeah.
[00:09:24] Speaker C: You know, success, if you will, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And. And that resentment, I mean the emotion of resentment becomes. Which is kind of an emotion I'm obsessed with just in my own, like, not in my. I don't think I'm a resentful person, but I'm obsessed with how this emotion kind of fuels so much of how people operate and their motivations. And I think that that feeling of resentment kind of clouds the whole film and, and the motivations of these characters. And I think, I think it's a worthwhile, like watch if you just want to experience that beyond just the history of film and stuff. So there's. It's rich. It's rich. I say that for a lot of films. And there's Wilhelm.
[00:10:11] Speaker B: We're out of time. I thoroughly thank you for this Pig. I have to say too. Just. I took a little bit of notes on my side, casting wise. I think it's Max von Stroheim, I think is his name, who plays. I don't. I'm trying to avoid spoilers, but plays her butler. Yeah, he actually, I recognize him he is in a movie called. It's French. Forgive me. La Grande Illusion. I'm totally gonna mispronounce it if I try to say the French. But he is a very. He was actually a silent film star, kind of very similar to Norma's story. He was actually like in the silent film area. He was an ama garde director outside of this film. So it's very interesting first off to see him in another film. He's fantastic.
Trivia on trivia. Legrand Illusions. The recent Criterion exists. It was the first Criterion spine.
[00:11:01] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:11:02] Speaker B: And he's one of the stars in it, so you should check it out. But that's the fun fact for that one. But yeah, it was fun to see him in that. And then also too. You're right. Just like. I think this had cameos by like. Actually Cecil B. DeMille was in it too.
You hit the nail on the head.
It was a movie about film in the. The golden age of Hollywood. So, you know.
[00:11:22] Speaker C: Yeah, it's. It's.
[00:11:23] Speaker B: It's kind of a strange, you know, mirror held out at a very busy time. It's not years down the road. Yeah. Amazing film. Yeah, I think it's fantastic. Any. Any final thoughts for. For that film? And what. What would you. What would you recommend to people who like this film or might like other things like this film? Maybe contemporary or.
[00:11:42] Speaker C: So I was thinking about this this morning and this is a weird. A weird one. But maybe if you liked. Nope.
[00:11:48] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:11:49] Speaker C: You might like. It's. It's. Nope. Is more.
[00:11:52] Speaker B: I think I can see where you. Sure, go ahead.
[00:11:53] Speaker C: More of a horror film, but it is kind of about the Hollywood industry.
[00:11:56] Speaker B: And I see where you're going with.
[00:11:57] Speaker C: That and how people are maybe lose their humanity in the churn of it.
[00:12:04] Speaker B: That's actually. It's a fascinating. I love that it's almost. It's almost approaching. Approaching, if you will, like the line of a documentary. You know, it's like.
It's bordering the behind the scenes and like the real life kind of like the notes. Yeah, the. Nope, exactly. I love that. Yeah, it's a great.
[00:12:22] Speaker C: Yeah. And so one other note with The Cecil B. DeMille is I couldn't help thinking that. And I can't remember this actress's name, but the lead actress in Pandora's Box, the German film, I believe she had kind of a similar. She was very popular in Hollywood, left for Germany because she was seen as too hard to work with. But I think in later life she developed a relationship with Cecil B. DeMille. Oh, and.
But she had a reputation being difficult to work with and kind of a faded star later in life. And that, that's who I thought of as I was watching this movie. And it's, it's sad to put it shortly.
[00:13:06] Speaker B: I actually, I would say maybe not the actual film and the film about the film, but one other recommendation I would say is maybe the Disaster Artist.
[00:13:14] Speaker C: Okay. Yeah, yeah.
[00:13:16] Speaker B: You know, about someone who's kind of in their own world about their fame.
[00:13:20] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:13:21] Speaker B: I wouldn't necessarily recommend watching the Room. I think. The Room.
[00:13:24] Speaker C: Yeah, you can skip that one.
[00:13:25] Speaker B: Yeah. Maybe the Disaster Artist about the Room, if you will. But great choice.
[00:13:29] Speaker C: Delusion. Yeah.
[00:13:30] Speaker B: Anyway, Sunset Boulevard. Okay, we're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back with my pick and move on from there.
All right, thank you for joining us again after the break. We just got done with Samuel's excellent pick for the week. That is Sunset Boulevard.
Remind me, you said it was, was it William Holden? Was, was that the male protagonist?
[00:13:55] Speaker C: I believe so, yeah.
[00:13:56] Speaker B: Yeah, he. I don't know if I've ever seen him in anything before. So that was actually, I always enjoy when you get a good male protagonist. It's kind of fresh to the eyes too.
So I really enjoyed that.
[00:14:06] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:14:07] Speaker B: But we're gonna hop into our second choice for this week, which is who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?
Before I dive in, I just want to give a heads up that this is a movie that does not have a rating.
And I'll explain why that is here in a minute. But also too, it is, it is a movie that does have some sensitive subject matter. There is a lot of domestic dispute in it. So just keep that in mind. If that's something that might bother you, that this might not be the movie for you.
Alright, Wilhelm, if you'll gear me up, we're gonna talk about a very, very loaded movie with a lot of, not a lot of people in it. Alright, start me off.
Okay, my pick for this week is who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf? Which I would argue is a little bit maybe less known than Sunset Boulevard, maybe on a grander scale. But again, kind of with the iconic kind of stature of it. I really felt this was a good theming for it. So let me give you some background, some story, and then I'll get into as to why who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf? It was. Came out in 1966, directed by Mike Nichols. He went on a year later to win best director for the graduate. 1967 stars Elizabeth Taylor and Richard Burton, which is really, really interesting and pivotal about this movie is that Richard Taylor and. Sorry, Richard Burton and Elizabeth Taylor were married in real life. And this is something in real life. Not only were they married at the time, but they had been divorced multiple times in their life. They were known to be a very problematic couple in real life, if you will.
And this movie is honestly hard to tell what is true and what is not. The other two really stars of this movie are George, George Seagull and Sandy Dennis. But really it's a very close quarter crew. This is adapted from a stage play that came out three years prior. So very intimate, very, very raw, if you will. But this film is very, very emotionally charged. Kind of what I said before I hopped into this, looking at a marriage falling apart. Marriage and illusion and disillusionment.
So what is this movie about? Well, really, the whole point of the whole plot of this movie is an aging, arguing couple invites a young collegiate couple over for a nightcap. And that's literally the point of the, what, hour and a half, two hour movie?
[00:16:27] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah.
[00:16:29] Speaker B: You know, that's, that's the easiest IMDb tagline in the world.
But it's not, it's not just about that, right?
[00:16:35] Speaker C: Yeah, it's, it's, it's a lot more.
[00:16:38] Speaker B: It gets heavy really quick. Yeah, it does, it does.
I'll say. We will dance around spoilers, but this movie is.
Samuel, I'm curious your thoughts. I saw it described as a turbulent therapy session. Okay. And it's. It's specifically for the two older couple. The two younger. The two. The younger couple have no idea what's about to happen. But this whole movie is about the turbulent existence of Elizabeth Taylor's Martha and Richard Burton's George.
Martha is the daughter of the president at a university president in which they live on campus. George is a history professor at the university.
[00:17:19] Speaker C: In the history department.
[00:17:20] Speaker B: In the history department.
[00:17:20] Speaker C: Yes, yes, yes.
[00:17:23] Speaker B: Thank you.
And he essentially. They hate each other. I think that's pretty safe to say.
[00:17:30] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. You get that before the young couple shows up.
[00:17:32] Speaker B: Right before you get the. I think Martha's first line when you see her is when she sees where George's house is, this is a dump. And immediately sets the tone for the movie. This is a dump. And then immediately starts hounding him about where that line comes from. He's clearly disinterested.
You just immediately feel that anxiety there.
[00:17:50] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:17:51] Speaker B: What were your. I know you hadn't seen this before. What were your thoughts after first kind of diving into this Movie again, these arguments, if you will.
[00:17:59] Speaker C: I need to take a break.
I needed to exhale. I mean, it is a lot. You kind of feel like the younger couple, you're invited into this home.
[00:18:08] Speaker B: That's a great point.
[00:18:09] Speaker C: You feel kind of trapped there, I guess.
And for me, the thing that stood out was like, the acting, like the ability of Elizabeth Taylor and Richard Burton to make you convinced that these two people loathe each other.
[00:18:23] Speaker B: Loathe each other. Yeah, I think that's a spot on. There's the scene that always gets. I mean, everything gets my blood pumping in this movie, but she's. Elizabeth Taylor is kind of going off on a tangent and Richard Burton just, like, leaves and you see him, like, grabbing a gun and you're like, oh, my gosh, he's gonna shoot her. And then that doesn't quite happen the way you think it's going to, but it's just like you think this lid is about to blow off of this at any moment.
The night develops. And so I don't want to necessarily give away the story beat by beat, but this very much kind of turns its focus on. Look how volatile this couple is to they almost at the end. Because I don't want to take up too much time at the end. They almost need each other and are almost inseparable in a way. How did you take that again? Kind of leaving spoilers out a little bit. How did you. How did that sit with you?
[00:19:16] Speaker C: It almost felt like this is something they do all the time. Sure. You know, this is not.
Maybe they don't entertain young, new faculty and their spouses all the time, but. But they play these games with each other all the time.
[00:19:37] Speaker B: I love that so much. I had not actually thought about that before.
[00:19:41] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:19:42] Speaker B: It's kind of like. But I love that. The idea that it's kind of like maybe new stat. Yeah. A new staff, new faculty. You know, this is kind of their twisted game, if you will.
[00:19:49] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:19:50] Speaker B: Kind of makes me think of modern, you know, ready or not type movies where it's like, you know, the rich play games with the people and. Yeah, but it's. Yeah, it's very much. It feels like the younger couple are kind of taking part in this twisted game. I'm running out of time, so I'll just end it with this. And then. A couple of last thoughts. This film is very, very. There's my timer right there. Very, very, very problematic. But purposefully, I will say to kind of put a cap on it. It. It's very challenging. It very it challenges kind of like what the American dream is. You know, you would think a history professor marrying the university's daughter would be happy. They have a nice house, money.
And again, you would. You would think this is their last straw. And so I think, lastly, I know my time is done, but I wanted to talk to you about this movie in comparison to Sunset Boulevard. Yeah, just with some historical anecdotes, because this movie really does deserve to be talked about. So this movie, at the time it came out in 1966, was nominated for 13 Academy Awards, which was a rare feat, and it won five, including Best Actress for Elizabeth Taylor. So that's pretty awesome. Right off the bat. I also talked about how it's not rated. And very, very briefly, because this is. This could be its own episode.
Film history, the rating system, PPR, sorry, G, PG, P213, R. All those did not exist pre 1960s, especially 1969 in the Bonnie and Clyde era. Very, very quickly. This movie was. This movie brought Bonnie and Clyde and one other, which I'm blanking on. Were the three responsible for the MPAA existing? Because at the time there was a Hays Code, is what it was called from the 1930s, which was essentially a group would watch this. They were anonymous. They would watch this and they would say, is this upsetting or not? And they would say, like, they would send it back and say, well, it had too many curse words or, you know, too revealing a clothing. It would just give vague notes and it would either be approved or not approved. Yeah. And so when you go on to IMDb or any movie pages, you'll see approved or not approved, sometimes a rating. And so for this movie, it has an approved rating, but was, a year, two years later, directly responsible for the MPAA being established. So culturally significant still plays into our watch to this day. Yeah, it's very, very interesting. I would love to talk more about it sometime.
They, again, a lot of the conversation revolved around it being a stage play, revolved around, you know, the fighting and the language. But then they talked about it being culturally irrelevant to people at the time and relationships. And it's very interesting that around that 1969 era was really when we kind of got new film, if you will, new cinema.
So anyways, I am absolutely in love with the choices that you had us pursue this week.
Just as a reminder, in summary, our choices were Sunset Boulevard and who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf? Yours was on both, am I correct?
[00:22:41] Speaker C: Yes, it's leaving hoopla soon, but it is also on Canopy, so hopefully It'll be there for a lot longer.
[00:22:47] Speaker B: Awesome. And mine is on both as well. Make sure to check them out with your library card, your Pioneer Library System library card, and we will check you out on another episode. Samuel Somic, thank you so much for joining us.
[00:22:57] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, it was great.
[00:22:58] Speaker B: We'll see you next time.
[00:22:59] Speaker C: See you next time.
[00:23:02] Speaker A: 5 Minute Film Finder is a digital program brought to you by Pioneer Library System in Oklahoma. All opinions expressed in this episode are those of the host and not those of the organization. Five Minute Film Finder is produced, recorded and mixed by Ben Si. Theme music by Ben Si. If you have any questions, concerns, or comments, please email podcastioneerlibrarysystem.org Remember to, like, review and subscribe. Thanks for listening.
