Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: It feels kind of maybe minimalist compared to Collateral in the sense of you don't have really too many deep philosophical conversations between characters until. Until things snap.
[00:00:18] Speaker B: Welcome to five Minute Film Finder, brought to you by Pioneer Library System.
[00:00:26] Speaker A: Hello, and welcome to five Minute Film Finder podcast for Pioneer Library System.
I'm one of your hosts today, Samuel, and I'm joined here with my co host, Darren.
[00:00:36] Speaker C: Great to be here. Hi, Samuel.
[00:00:38] Speaker A: Hey, Darren. Happy to have you here. I'm pretty excited about today's podcast because we're doing sort of a mashup of Michael Mann films. Are you big Michael Mann fan?
[00:00:49] Speaker C: That's probably too. Too far.
[00:00:51] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:00:52] Speaker C: Michael Mann fan. I. I don't know if I go there. I. I am a big fan of a few of his movies. Specifically, big fan of Heat, Last of the Mohicans. Okay. I'm not as big a fan of his.
Call him drier historical. You know, the.
The Insider wasn't. It wasn't a movie for me.
Ferrari also not really a movie for me.
[00:01:16] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:01:17] Speaker C: But. But, yeah, pretty well regarded, especially for his. His 90s stuff. So, yeah, I was. I was pretty excited to get into this.
[00:01:23] Speaker A: Yeah. I. Well, if you're like me, you've only seen a few Michael Mann films, so, you know, I would say I am a fan.
[00:01:31] Speaker C: So you had. You hadn't seen Thief?
[00:01:33] Speaker A: I had, yeah. So, yeah, for today, we're doing Thief and Collateral, and I had not seen Thief. I had seen Collateral, and so Heat's the other one I've seen. So I was kind of excited to talk about Collateral, but after watching Thief, I might be more excited to talk about your choice.
[00:01:50] Speaker C: Right. I was. I kind of feel the same way. Like, I was. I was a big fan of Collateral. I was excited to do the podcast when. When I heard that you were interested in Collateral. Oh, hey. I was very excited to hear that it was Collateral. And then I was kind of debating between doing Manhunter, which I don't know if everybody knows that's the first appearance by Hannibal Lecter on film.
[00:02:10] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:02:11] Speaker C: 1986 is. Manhunter was played by Brian Cox.
[00:02:15] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:02:16] Speaker C: Hannibal Lecter was before Anthony Hopkins. Okay. But yeah, so 1986, Manhunter and Thief were the two that I was choosing from. And I'm glad I chose Thief, actually.
[00:02:26] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:02:27] Speaker C: Because I was actually kind of impressed. I was. I'm excited to talk about this.
[00:02:32] Speaker A: Yeah, no, I'm pretty excited too.
So should we. Since we're both very excited about Thief, should we. Should we just get Collateral out of the way? Yeah.
[00:02:41] Speaker C: Let's do Collateral first. Sounds good.
[00:02:43] Speaker A: Okay, I guess we'll all toss it to Wilhelm to get the timer started.
Okay, so my choice was collateral. I think a big draw of this movie is you see Tom Cruise play a villain.
[00:02:58] Speaker C: Sure.
[00:02:58] Speaker A: Right.
[00:02:59] Speaker C: Which is not something he does.
[00:03:01] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:03:01] Speaker C: Just across the board, basically does not do that.
[00:03:04] Speaker A: And it's always. It's always fun to see an actor kind of step outside of where they're typically cast. But. But this is. I mean, I think this hits a lot of the high notes for me of, of the Michael Mann movies I've seen, which is you have people who are very good at their jobs locked in conflict with one another. Right. So you have Tom Cruise. He plays a hitman who is brought in to Los Angeles to do these hits. And then you have Jamie Foxx also playing a very competent, like, professional taxi driver. Right. And he is. He sort of gets caught up in Tom Cruise's sort of machinations. Right.
[00:03:46] Speaker C: His mission.
[00:03:47] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:03:47] Speaker C: Has a mission at the start of the movie.
[00:03:49] Speaker A: Yeah. So he basically is like, here, I'll pay you. Was it like $600? Which is a lot more in today's money and is like, you're gonna drive me around and I'm gon do these hits. And he doesn't know that though.
[00:04:04] Speaker C: He doesn't know Jim Fox is in the dark at the start. But. But yeah, yes.
[00:04:08] Speaker A: The first, the first hit goes awry and then all of a sudden it becomes sort of your.
[00:04:13] Speaker C: Hits the roof of the car.
[00:04:14] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:04:17] Speaker C: Good, good cast in this movie. Jamie Foxx, like we talked about. Tom Cruise, Mark Ruffalo in there.
[00:04:23] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:04:24] Speaker C: Great, great, great role for him.
[00:04:27] Speaker A: Sort of a. You know, when I first watched this movie and I saw him, I was like, it's Mark Ruffalo.
Slicked back hair, goatee, cop, Right?
[00:04:41] Speaker C: Yeah. Way slicker than he ever is.
[00:04:43] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:04:43] Speaker C: He's always kind of a, you know, he rumpled looking guy. Yeah, he was not rumpled in this.
[00:04:49] Speaker A: Not at all. Not at all. Yeah. So sort of. So, you know, a very interesting cast in terms of the characters they're playing. Especially if you, you know, came of age watching Mark Ruffalo as like the Hulk or something. Right. You know, he's much different. Much different. Much different. So.
Yeah, but, but within all of this is you get the sort of philosophical debates. The, the car ride. Philosophical debates.
[00:05:18] Speaker C: Get lots of, lots of time spent in the car.
[00:05:20] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:05:20] Speaker C: They're just talking.
[00:05:21] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:05:22] Speaker C: You know, figuring each other out, their lives, the stuff like that.
[00:05:25] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:05:26] Speaker C: So and so a lot of it falls to Jamie Foxx. You're seeing his interaction, his face reacting to the things that are happening. And I think he sells it. It's pretty good.
[00:05:36] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And he's, you know, he's like this very capable guy, obviously. He is this character who is wanting a bigger and better life. He wants to start his own limousine company. And it really shows in his work as a taxi driver. He has the cleanest cab in la. Right. He's very good at what he does. He knows the routes better than anyone else. He can get you there fast. Right. But he seems too good to just be, like, a cab driver. Right. He should be running his limo company. Right.
But he's also a normal guy. Right. He has, like, insecurities.
[00:06:15] Speaker C: Very much. Every man flows flavor from him.
[00:06:17] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:06:17] Speaker C: You don't feel like he's extra special and just. He's good at his job.
[00:06:21] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, for sure, for sure. And he's kind of thrown into this scary situation in which a psychopath is sitting in the backseat of his car.
And it's. It's interesting, the dynamics between the two of them, because in some ways you feel. You feel Jamie Foxx kind of.
[00:06:45] Speaker C: Come.
[00:06:45] Speaker A: Into himself a bit. Right. As a character. Max, I believe, is his character's name. Right, Max. And Vincent is Tom Cruise's character.
And they both sort of.
I don't think Vincent ever changes too much, but you feel Max kind of become more confident. Right?
[00:07:04] Speaker C: Yeah. Like he's talking to Vincent and figuring out himself a little bit, like, in what's Happening, and he. Yeah, he goes. Definitely goes on a journey.
[00:07:14] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. And it's. It's. I don't know. And that's. I think that's kind of an attractive quality of this movie is it plays less around the kind of you. You have, like, Vincent sort of engaging in some sort of philosophical rationalization for what he does.
But at the end of the day, it's more about Jamie Foxx sort of maturing into someone who rejects sort of the. The.
Is it too hard, too much to say. Intellectual sophistry of Vincent?
[00:07:54] Speaker C: I don't know. Oh, no. And that's Wilhelm breaking in on us. Any. What do you got? Anything else you want to say about Collateral?
[00:08:02] Speaker A: I think it's a good movie.
I think we would be remiss to not point out that Jason Statham also is in this.
[00:08:11] Speaker C: Barely. Right. So, yeah, real quick. Movie Club on Hoopla.
[00:08:16] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:08:16] Speaker C: And it was listed on here because it's a Jason Statham Month of March. And he is in this movie for all of two seconds at the very, very beginning. Has a line. He's gone.
[00:08:26] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:08:26] Speaker C: Airport man is how he's credited.
[00:08:28] Speaker A: Yeah. So keep your.
[00:08:29] Speaker C: If you're looking for Jason Statham in this movie, you're gonna have to watch real close.
[00:08:32] Speaker A: Yeah. Keep your eyes peeled.
[00:08:33] Speaker C: But yeah, great. Michael Mann movie at night. You know, the whole movie, basically. So you get some interesting shots because of that thriller movie. Good stuff.
[00:08:43] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's. It's a good watch. It's a good watch for sure.
[00:08:48] Speaker C: All right, so you ready for.
[00:08:50] Speaker A: Shall we take a break and then return with Thief?
And welcome back.
Now we're gonna switch gears a bit. Go a little bit earlier in Michael Mann's catalog to Thief, and I'll toss it over to you, Darren.
[00:09:13] Speaker C: Okay, so we'll get Wilhelm set up.
[00:09:15] Speaker A: Oh, yeah.
[00:09:16] Speaker C: We'll talk about 1981's Thief, written directed by Michael Mann, as we've been talking about. This is actually Michael Mann's first movie. He did a little bit of TV work and stuff, but this was his first movie. It was a successful movie. Did pretty well at the box office for the time, you know, doubled its budget or whatever. So, you know, not too bad.
Decently well regarded.
But I've never seen it. Okay, you'd never seen it. Like we talked about.
I don't know if there was a reason why you'd never seen it, but for me, it was just like it just old enough to. Where I just didn't catch that one. You know, I was watching Arnold movies and Stallone movies in the 80s.
[00:10:03] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:10:04] Speaker C: I didn't. I was like. We talked about a little bit at the break. The. It feels like a 70s and 80s kind of a movie where, like, the cars and the clothes and stuff just feels a little more dated than, like I said, like, you know, a typical 80s action film. Yeah, it's definitely not an action movie. It is. That is. This is. If you're like expecting the. The. The big time action pieces and Heat or even like Last of the Mohicans like I talked about, none of that is present until the very end of the movie. Yeah, they. They're very Michael man. In general, this movie is more focused on these character interactions centered around these heists. The. The very first bit of the movie is. Is great. I love the intro with that. The rain scene, the darkness in the alley where they. Where the camera pans down and they're doing these jobs. Made me think of some of the way that the Heath shot like the heists in that, but the quiet one in the middle of the movie. Not the gunfire one at the end of the movie in Heat, but those like the weird close up shots of the drill at the very beginning of the movie and then later when he's using that thermal lance or like long extended shots of them cutting into a safe. Yeah. Which I thought was interesting because like most movies, the safecracker, guys, he's in there listening to the safe. Like James Caan was not a listening to the safe. Safecracker. He's like, he's hitting it with a hammer. Whatever he can do to get in there.
But yeah, like, like, like a full five minute scene, like where they're using that thermal lance on the, on the big time safe at the end of the movie.
[00:11:42] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:11:43] Speaker C: Interestingly shot.
[00:11:46] Speaker A: Mesmerizing, I would say.
[00:11:48] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. Really, really interesting. I was really surprised. Like this movie a lot better than I thought I was going to. Yeah, it's a little weird in, in the middle for me. The Willie Nelson stuff.
[00:12:00] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:12:00] Speaker C: A little odd. Willie Nelson isn't a very good actor.
[00:12:03] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:12:05] Speaker C: And I laughed out loud at his final scene. Willie Nelson's final scene made me laugh out loud.
[00:12:13] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:12:13] Speaker C: Way it played, it just, it was, it was funny for me. It's not supposed to be fun, but it was pretty funny.
[00:12:18] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:12:18] Speaker C: But yeah, in general, like I said, I really like this movie. James Caan is good. Not that I'm a huge fan of James Caan, but I really think the, the gangster guy was his name. I don't remember what the character's name was, but he played by Robert Prosky, I believe is the actor's name. And he just generally like plays the sweet old guy.
[00:12:37] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:12:37] Speaker C: And stuff. Like for my whole life he's been playing the sweet old guy.
[00:12:41] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:12:41] Speaker C: And to see him as not so sweet was kind of fun.
[00:12:44] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:12:45] Speaker C: But he was also still kind of sweet. Like, you know, he got a little. There was a few times where like, okay, maybe this guy is a little menacing. But like for the most part through the movie, the, the bad guys were not overly bad. Like, it wasn't like you were. You had a clear vision of, you know, where the conflict was going to be. Like we talked towards the end of the movie, which, you know, it's. It's a heist movie. The heist is great. You go through that and then there's a 30 minutes or something like that after the heist is over at the end of the movie where these characters all, everything just Comes crashing down and they all interact and things happen and.
And yeah, he kind of blows up his life.
[00:13:23] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. You. Yeah, it's. It's interesting because you see the conflict of characters finally come through in that final. That final act, and it's. Yeah, yeah.
[00:13:32] Speaker C: And.
[00:13:32] Speaker A: Yeah, he. He.
[00:13:33] Speaker C: And the choices that he makes are interesting. Like, oh, I'm just gonna. Just do all this.
[00:13:38] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And it's. It's interesting because. Well, I mean, I don't want to spoil it, but there's a sense of, you know, the crime boss is sort of. You can have all of these things, but know that they're contingent on my goodwill towards you.
And so his answer to that is like, well, I'm just gonna burn it all.
[00:14:03] Speaker C: Burn it all down. No, I won't do that. He calls his time and he talks to his girlfriend and then wife a little bit at the beginning of the movie. There's a diner scene that reminded me of Heat. Cause the way they're facing each other and some. Some very interesting story beats there that I felt Michael Mann kind of.
And there is. There's Wilhelm interrupting me again. That jerk.
[00:14:26] Speaker A: Always.
[00:14:26] Speaker C: Always making me miss what I was talking about.
[00:14:31] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:14:31] Speaker C: Any. Any final thoughts on. On Thief? Other than. It's great.
[00:14:34] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, I think kind of to your point earlier, there's a sense it's.
It's maybe an overused word, but this is. There are vibes to this very vibe.
[00:14:46] Speaker C: Yeah, the poster. We were talking about that earlier too. Like, that one poster is really interesting.
There's the music I thought was interesting. We didn't get to talk about that Tangerine Dream, which has. Electronica band that has a really interesting gigantic Wikipedia article, if you're into that. Because like 55 people have been in this band or whatever, and they did music for the Grand Theft Auto 5. Like, any music that isn't a, like, actual artist. Like, the. The electronic music that's playing was done by the same band. And I thought it went really well with the. The way Michael Mann shot this movie in Chicago.
[00:15:29] Speaker A: I did not look up the.
[00:15:30] Speaker C: And la.
[00:15:31] Speaker A: Okay. Oh, wow.
[00:15:32] Speaker C: The two places.
[00:15:33] Speaker A: Those were the four.
[00:15:34] Speaker C: Is that where it took place? I think. Right. I'm looking to, like, Ben. Like, he.
[00:15:38] Speaker A: Yeah, Ben. Did you do the research anyway? Yeah, yeah.
[00:15:43] Speaker C: I think it was Chicago or the first.
[00:15:45] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:15:45] Speaker C: Part of the. Because then they fly to LA for the.
[00:15:48] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. For the. For the. The big heist.
[00:15:51] Speaker C: And. Yeah, that. The whole cop bit there was. Was weird for me because, like, that didn't Play very well. I thought they could just left all that cop stuff out and it wouldn't matter for the movie at all. But that's what I was kind of talking about. Like, that stuff in the middle just got a little weird.
[00:16:03] Speaker A: Okay. Yeah.
[00:16:04] Speaker C: And. And my gosh, the Willie Nelson thing.
So they go to the. He gets him out of prison, right. And they're going to the hospital because he's dying of angina. He's in prison. He's dying of angina. You got to get me out. He gets him out and he's. Oh, I'm in the hospital. As soon as he gets out of the prison, he has to go to the hospital because he's dying. James Caan character goes and sees him, and Willie Nelson whispers in his ear, and then he dies.
And the scene. It was so funny to me, the way he just kind of just slumped over. I couldn't believe it.
[00:16:37] Speaker A: Yeah. And even the. When he visits him in the jail, Willie Nelson looks scared the whole time.
[00:16:44] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:16:45] Speaker A: Like.
[00:16:46] Speaker C: Like. Like, I am nervous because I'm on film.
[00:16:48] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:16:49] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:16:50] Speaker A: It's. It does not.
I was. I was kind of confused because you.
You take for granted how, like, good these actors are, Right. Like, you're. You're, like, watching them perform and you're getting all this emotional information from how they hold their faces.
[00:17:09] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. And I'm gone. Especially, like, he doesn't emote, like.
[00:17:13] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:17:14] Speaker C: At all.
Like, loudly in this movie. It's all just subtle stuff.
[00:17:19] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:17:20] Speaker C: You know, and. Yeah. Like, Willie Nelson, it was.
[00:17:23] Speaker A: He looks scared. And you're like, why is. Why is this a scary thing? Why is this a scary thing? And then at certain parts, it works because, you know, he's like, oh, he's. He's dying. Okay.
[00:17:32] Speaker C: Who is this old man? She says, even though Willie Nelson's only, like, seven years older than James Caan.
[00:17:36] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:17:37] Speaker C: He was my father figure.
[00:17:39] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:17:40] Speaker C: I didn't get. You know. Anyway.
[00:17:41] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:17:42] Speaker C: Like, some from some first movie bumps in there for me in the middle. But. But yeah, really, like I said, it was kind of impressed.
[00:17:49] Speaker A: Yeah. No, it's. Yeah. I mean, you're right about, like, that opening montage or like that.
[00:17:54] Speaker C: Yeah, I love that.
That. That. The opening heist, like, the rest of the movie, I didn't even care. Like, I was. I was along for the ride, but I was hooked. Like, that first part of the movie was great.
[00:18:04] Speaker A: And you don't even. There's barely any dialogue beyond just like. And. And you have a story told. It's it's awesome. It's great.
Yeah.
[00:18:13] Speaker C: And I didn't hate James Belushi in this movie.
[00:18:16] Speaker A: Yeah, that was.
[00:18:18] Speaker C: I kind of hated his hair. Yeah, I hated his hair a little bit, but his hair has always kind of been like that. But. Yeah, but he wasn't awful.
[00:18:25] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, and I mean, the, the, the shootout scene in the house is, is really like.
[00:18:31] Speaker C: It was good. Dennis Farina not even having a line. Okay, I missed that talking about that. And on the, the podcast. I wanted to get that one in there.
[00:18:40] Speaker A: There it was. I mean, it's a movie worth we're talking about. I feel like it's, it's a good movie to talk about, you know. So that's our not quite so deep dive into Michael Mann. Collateral and Thief. Available on Hoopla. Check them out asap and enjoy.
[00:18:59] Speaker C: Bye.
[00:19:01] Speaker B: 5 minute film finder is a digital program brought to you by Pioneer Library System in Oklahoma. All opinions expressed in this episode are those of the host and not those of the organization. Five Minute Film Finder is produced, recorded and mixed by Ben Cuba. Theme music by Ben C. If you have any questions, concerns, or comments, please email podcast at pioneerlibrariesystem.
[00:19:25] Speaker C: Org.
[00:19:25] Speaker B: Remember to, like, review and subscribe. Thanks for listening.
